tommy, you've represented to rush limbaugh. >> these are independent groups looking at this bill saying that it's going to crowd out private insurance over time. that's the goal. when i talk to honest democrats on capitol hill staff, and i spend a lot of time up there, they admit the end game and the long-term goal is to crowd out private insurance. >> that is crap. i don't know anybody associated with this bill that wants to do that. >> private insurance will remain in this country for the wealth and privileged. >> that is such nonsense. that is totally ridiculous. the fact of the matter is this -- let me finish my example that carl brought up. if you -- if your employer decides they're going to dump people off their employment rolls, which, by the way, small businesses will not have to pay any more for this, they be then the employee has a choice. they can use their government subsidy to buy private health shuns or public health insurance. that's a fact. >> until they're closure on this we'll continue to invite you on to defend the policy. we hope you'll come back after a spirited 15